“Writers are liars, my dear, surely you know that by now? And yet, things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot.” - Neil Gaiman - Dream Country
Translation courtesy Elena Carla Maria Cantoni (Grazie! https://www.facebook.com/groups/133866179978426/user/100000892584323/)
Video from Silvana Mendes Facebook here: Special Talk Talk, una produzione Italia Uno per Deejay Television Prima Parte (Talk Talk Special - a Italia Uno production for Deejay Television - First Part)
First guy from audience: “Look I expect to space out! It’s been a depressive week, but now I am here and… ‘fiieeww’!!”
First girl from audience: “I await a concert with a music that is different from what we are usually used to…”
Second girl from audience: “I already saw Talk Talk in Milano and they were wonderful. I expect they will be even better here today, with all these people…”
First interview – Mark: “Why do I close myself in the wardrobe after the concert? Well, it happened twice in my life and both the times there were TV troupes in my room. You see, when I come back to the hotel and I am alone, I can slip into my bed and sleep. But if I come back and I find TV people in my room, so I begin to look for a better place to be quiet and I found out this best place is my wardrobe!”
Mark (in italian) on stage when introducing “It’s my life” song: “This song is very important to me because its title is ‘It’s my life’!!”
Second interview – Paul: “I have to say this was the best concert we ever did.”
Lee: “It is a fantastic audience.”
Mark: “Well, what can I say? I had fun. There is not so much to add, really. It was great and I had fun. I like doing concerts.”
Third interview, probably on the bus to the concert (not so easy to distinguish who is saying what) –
Paul: “Here we are guys! All together while we’re going to the concert!”
Lee(or Mark?): “First scene, ciak one!”
Fourth interview, immediately after the third, minute 10:16 –
Lee: “Before getting on the stage I think about how I am going to play, I prepare myself psychologically, I think about the beats of the different songs and similar things…”
Mark (laughing): “Before getting on the stage I train drinking two bottles of Gin!”
Paul: “I do not think about anything before a concert. I get on the stage and play, just that. It’s simple.”
Again second girl from audience: “[I loved]… when they sang ‘Dum dum girl’, that is my favourite song from them…”
Fifth interview, from minute 24:10, on the bus –
Mark: “You know, there is this guy here (points the cameraman with finger) that is following me everywhere! I woke up this morning…”
Paul(?): “And you got up…”
Mark: “No! No! I did not ever get up and there was this guy with the camera filming! But who are you?! (Shouting) Who are you??!!”
Lee: “I was under the shower, under the shower!! (from under the shower) Stop! Cut! I do not want to see you no more! (this last part added by italian translation)”
Again on the bus – Interviewer: “Which is the main difference between Italy and the other countries where you played?”
Paul: “Here they speak Italian!”
Mark: “ Yes, it’s true! They speak Italian!”
Sixth interview, with the crew, minute 27:
Interviewer: “What does it mean [for you] to be touring with TT?”
Phil Reis: “It’s a question of life!”
John Turnbull: “It is like delivering a baby!”
Ian Curnow: ”It’s a terrible thing!”
Final greetings, minute 29:40 –
Mark: “I would like just to say that it was a great pleasure to work with Deejay Television!”
Hello! I know, it's been a long time. A recently released into the wild video has turned up. From June 14, 1985 Bravo TV (Germany).
I can't take credit for the transcription. This is from the fabulous digital illustrator, Nika Purkis. Thanks Nika, you're awesome!
Text borrowed unceremoniously from Facebook (of course posted with kind permission from the amazing lady Nika):
Ok,
here's a first go at transcribing/translating (I stuck to what was
actually said by the guys as best as I could, please correct where I
misheard stuff!) This was highly entertaining
==============
{on the tube}
Guy:
{starts mid-sentence}…this is not the case anymore with the dudes you
are about to see, they are among the top stars of the international
music scene…
Lady:… and are currently recording their new album at Battery Studios. This is Talk Talk!
{outside Battery Studios}
Lady
VoiceOver: On this road in Northwest London is where Battery Studios
are located. From the moment you step into the place it is obvious that
only top quality work is produced here. From Iron Maiden, Yes, to
Cars..this is where only the best musicians come to record their stuff.
{TT walking in}
Lady
VoiceOver: And when these guys are in productive mode it’s well
possible to catch a few funny quips during the interview as well. The
boys are really just up to mischief.
{the piano scene}
Mark: This is a piece from our new album.
Lee: That’ll probably set the single. {?}
Paul and Mark: yeah…
Lady
(VoiceOver): A track from the new album? well, that doesn’t sound
promising! One “plang” on the piano, and stupid faces. They are taking
the piss, right!?
{She’s asking them something inaudible while sitting down, Lee says "I’ll sit here" but I didn’t catch Mark}
Lady: You’re working now on the new record?
{I can’t quite catch what Lee’s saying..”there’s a something here”? }
Mark: yeah.
Lady: What’s gonna be the name of the record?
Mark: Don’t know that…. Don’t know.
Lady: And when is it gonna be finished?
Mark: Uh..about 2, 3 months? 4 months? September, October perhaps. Unless it takes longer.
Lady: When you began with Talk Talk, Mark, didn’t you have the wish to be a pop star?
Mark:
No I only ever wished for one thing…and that was that I could sit here
and do this interview with you right now… {laughs} it’s beautiful
innit…it’s beautiful.
Lee {laughs}: beautiful…beautiful
Lady: Ok, but seriously now: what does your recording process look like?
Mark:
ah right. Lee comes in, right, and he starts hitting things. And we all
go ‘ah stop that bangin’... stop that bangin’. But he won’t, right,
until someone says: if we tape it…will you stop banging. And he’s yeah,
alright,… and so we tape it, and he stops banging.
And then Paul comes around, …..oh that awful noise..that noise…dum dum, dum dum….so we tape that.
Lee: …and then we invite people down to make noise…
Mark: Yeah…
Lee: …so we can put it on tape.
Mark:
Yeah. Trying to make it a bit better, with just him and Paul this thing
is terrible. It is rubbish. It’s absolute rubbish. So we invite people
who can actually play, to make it sound nice. And that’s it really.
Bruce Douglas & Mark Hollis - Photo by George Bodnar, NME
New Musical Express - August 26, 1978
Caption: THE REACTION: “So cop the new single, right?”
The Reaction MARQUEE CLUB, LONDON
REACTION, You wanna reaction? Aw, right - try this.
Hey gang - Remember those fabulous ‘60s? No? Rowboat the slick ‘70s? Reaction do. They checked out transatlantic Pop Rhythm ’n’ Rock Hall of Fame. And decided that’s where they’re coming from.
They’re young and they play good. Sound is structured round controlled interplay between lead and rhythm guitars, with heavy rhythmic support at the back. I heard them make a mistake on “Live Alone”, but otherwise the playing was just about flawless. Tasty harmonies too.
Mark Hollis (rhythm guitars) take the lead vocals and catches the main visual action. He kneels (prayer wise?) in front of the speakerstack. He reached for the volume switch… I felt a lump in my throat: this is feedback. And Gino Williams Jr. (drums) played a solo. That’s right - a drum solo. Laugh? I nearly cried as their cover version of Cream’s “Badge” chop-chopped through the speakers. Oh to be thirteen…
The Reaction look like up and coming corporate rockers should. Bruce Douglas (bass) is like Willie De Ville in a smartie suit. Bruce handles the material with finesse. He’s a suave player.
Perhaps they’ll headline and make albums. Just like Taste, Ten Years after and all that crew. Then the business really moves in and they get bagged as Rock stars.
Catch them now while they’re still fun.
Caris
(Fun fact: George Page mentioned to me that the two people at the mike was their nod to the Beatles.)
The Reaction-Promotional Poster - courtesy George Page
(All photos and documents herein provided by George Page (unless noted^^) and published/shared with his kind permission.)
In the previous post, there was a letter from Geoff Baker to the Reaction asking to attend their gig at the Roundhouse for July 23. In the letter he mentions an unpublished review, which I've transcribed for you here.
God bless Geoff, he was truly a great fan of the band. A 'gushing' review according to George Page. But I disagree and think he's just being humble. I think it's probably spot on. Geoff's description of George made me truly regret never seeing the Reaction live. Mind you, I would have been three years old at the time and nobody wants a crying toddler around them.
GWB July 12
After getting drunk on warm beer, and feeling better for the belches, I hung around (trying to look hard and failing) waiting for the support band - The Reaction.
They came on like they knew they were good. They had an instant buzz in their blues which hit you like a smack in the face.
Like may of the bands that have emerged since J. Rotten esq. started puking over punters and saying it was cool, they had that aggressive energy that hippies lack, but they added a definitive touch that put them miles above the bands whose names people like to mention in “hip” conversation at gin and tonic records parties - musicianship. They don’t just strut like turkeys playing B flat, they know their way around an axe.
Gino Williams, who drummed like a threshing machine on amphetamine sulphate, summed up the band’s ethos for the ligging journalist.
“The most important thing lacking today is the ability to play what’s hanging round your neck. The Pistols started the vibe - which was great cos it proved you could get to the crowds without coming on like some super guitarist. But then it degenerated and you got bands just getting up and playing anything as long it was loud and fast.
“What we try to do is link both areas so you get this high energy and musical ability”.
Which is what they’ve got. As a band they are enigmatic on stage. Mark Hollis, lead vocals and rhythm axe, stands, legs askance, ready to blow a lot of “name” bands off the boards. To an extent this kid is personified rock and roll.
- Gruff, wild, skinny and raw - R&R ain’t about be[ing] fat and comfortable in your silk armchair. Let’s hope that no executive from Island “matures” the image and wrecks the band with business-inclined compromise.
Even though his brother - who brought a new meaning to the Hot Rods and to sunglasses - helped shaped Barrie Masters into one of the best front men in the country - Mark’s gonna wreck that reputation if the Press give him a chance.
On lead there is this demon who comes on like some cross between Wilko Johnson (in dress) and Billy Wyman in his dancing. Wilko, who half the country acclaimed as king when he was with the Feelgoods, just ain’t in the same league as this guy, he whips solo’s out with all the ease of someone darning socks.
The band is tight - tres tight - a lot of that, I think is due to Bruce’s bass, I haven’t seen a guy move over the frets with such power and dexterity since wotshisname left Free.
You can’t describe the effect a band like this has in an article. But the best way to sum them up was by their version of “Badge”.
They broke this 60s classic into the 70s by mixing the epitome of musicianship (viz. Cream) with all the raw power and energy of punk This was music how it should be played - brining new ideas and interpretations to old, but intact, doctrines.
See them when you can, impress your friends with tales of these Titans of young rock. Your future and the health of music lies in their hands.
(All photos and documents herein provided by George Page and published/shared with his kind permission.)
If you follow me on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter, then you might have this inkling that recently, I've been in touch with their guitarist, a legend, so far as I'm concerned and all around gentleman.
For those not in the know, the Reaction is Mark Hollis' band prior to Talk Talk. They toured (a lot! Their tour itineraries are below) and recorded a few things here and there for an album that never came to pass. What came was a single, the b-side and a contribution to a compilation album.
George has been digging tirelessly throughout his own files and archives and has been kind enough to share his finds with me and with his kind permission, with you. I've always been firm on my belief that these kind of thing should be accessible to the fans. Among the Talk Talk fans, there sits plenty of us that discovered Mark's first band with George Page, Bruce Douglas and Gino P. Williams and absolutely fell in love with the three tracks (I Can't Resist, I'm a Case and Talk Talk Talk Talk) that we were allowed to hear.
The Reaction photoshoot @ Electric Avenue
Over the last two years demo tracks and even a live recording surfaced on YouTube. Gold! Pure gold for us. But unfortunately, so far as I can tell, all of these tracks have since been pulled down from YouTube. If new recordings pop up on YouTube (or on a public forum elsewhere) I'll be sure to share them with you. For now, here is a link to a playlist with everything I've been able to find, Reaction related, on YouTube.
I was fortunate enough to have received this from George Page. A letter from reviewer Geoff Baker from the Express & Echo newspaper in Exeter. I don't have the actual review yet (UPDATE: within hours of posting, the most excellent Mr. Page came through and sent me the review. I've transcribed it in next post or you can click on the link here), but I think the last line of Geoff's letter says it all. Clearly Geoff saw in a 23 year old Mark what we all now know.
(For those not in the know, Geoff Baker moved on to become Paul McCartney's PR guy for a while. Special thanks to Alla Webster for providing me with that tidbit.)
Transcript of the letter is below.
Letter from Geoff Baker to Mark Hollis and the Reaction
Letter Transcript:
Dear Mark,
Regarding me and the bird coming to see you blast Sharr Murray* to bits at the Marquee. Well, we can’t make it, cos my editor won’t give me that day off. But, there’s always a but, we can come up to see you at the Roundhouse. Are you playing the Roundhouse? On Sunday July 23? I fucking hope so. If so, could you get my name on the door - plus two (cos I’ll bring the bird and I’ve told my brother what a blast you are on stage (I’ve also told half of the Westcountry) and he wants to come). If you can’t manage it, we’ll pay cos I don’t mind forking out for bands like you, it would just make it all easier if we were “on the door”.
I’ll send the single review up when its published on Saturday. I think they might have cut it cos I wrote a lot - I also wrote a review of your Exeter gig and I think they’ve spiked that as well - I have no control on what appears in the paper. In case it don’t get printed, I’ve included what I wrote about you that night.
Could you phone me some time to say whether you’re playing the Roundhouse? Thank you. Best of luck with future gigs - you have got a rare magic, don’t compromise.
Geoff
______________
*Note: George explains that Sharr gave them a bad review which is what Geoff is referring to in the letter. From Geoff's enthusiasm in the letter, I assume they definitely blasted Sharr 'to bits'.
Oh... and happy birthday Mark Hollis, man of rare magic and few compromises.
Mark Hollis @ the Marquee, performing with The Reaction, 1978
If you are new to my blog let me explain: I do this thing where I transcribe audio from Talk Talk interviews where no text is available for the purpose of providing non-English speakers accessibility to those interviews. So, let me make this clear, I claim no rights to the interview and my transcript is solely for accessibility and educational purposes. I must apologize now, I'm really sorry this is taking so long. I've not had a chance to sit down and get to the other two parts of the interview, so I humbly present this very rough draft of the first part of the interview above (the other two parts are linked below). - Update - It's now all done! As always, Brits, if I've clearly messed up something they've said, please let me know in the comments below. If anyone notices some seriously strange typos and grammatical issues in the text, also, let me know. I'll will happily keep this up to date and corrected. Historic Films - Talk Talk Interview (3 parts) Some things to note: We [yup... this is a group effort!] are in the process of trying to pin down exactly where they were. We assumed it was possibly Atlanta, Georgia - September 1, 1982 but have since been corrected as the incident they refer to about the preacher in the news happened on September 3rd and wasn't widely reported in the media until September 6th. I'm tentatively amending this to Miami until someone can definitively correct it for me - show me some proof!) - on tour with Elvis Costello & the Attractions.
The notation (?) throughout the text indicates items where I was not clear on who was speaking or what was being said)
Mark Hollis: … [We] did one for them when we were down there.
Interviewer: Okay, let’s do a mic check quick. Let me just have you tell me what your name is and where you’re from.
Mark: Mark. I’m from London, England.
Interviewer 1: Okay. And…
Paul Webb: Paul I’m from London, in England as well. One. Two.
Interviewer 2: Once again.
Mark: Which one? Me as well? I’m alright.
Paul: One, two. Testing. One. (whistling)
Second Interviewer(?): Is that (unintelligible) mic…
Mark: So do you just work this area?
Interviewer 1: Yeah. We work Florida and the south east, pretty much, yeah. There’s so many recording studios down here that we never really have to leave this area. There’s always someone either coming through on tour or coming down to live and record.
Mark: Sure, sure.
Interviewer 1: So we get a lot of stories out here. We got criteria…
Mark: So how bad is the violence ‘round here. ’Cos, I mean, when I was, like, up in London, like, this cop he was telling me down here is the worst place in the whole of the States.
Interviewer 1: That’s what the image would lead everybody to believe. I dunno. I mean personally -
Mark: But it’s lies, is it?
Interviewer 1: Yeah. It’s nice down here I don’t…
Interviewer 2: Yeah it’s like any place, it depends where you go.
Interviewer 1: Yeah.
Mark: And what you look like.
Interviewer 2: There’s places in London that are terrific and there’s places you just don’t hang out at.
Mark: Oh yeah. That’s right.
Interviewer 1: Yeah, I mean it’s not really a (totally (?)) violent place.
Mark: That’s right. I live at one of them.
Interviewer 1: It’s not that chaotic. I mean, I just read a story in the paper in San Francisco. A street preacher was preaching and someone, a bunch of teenagers taunted him, so he jumped in a Mustang, a ‘65 Mustang, and ran right in to a crowd on the street and killed… I mean, total chaos you know, people… They jumped on this guy and beat him senseless. But anyway, let’s not talk about violence. Talk Talk’s playing tonight. Tell me, give me a little detail on how you’ve hooked up with Elvis Costello.
Mark: Well, a couple of months ago I came over to New York with Keith, our manager. We spent about three days in New York and three days over on the west coast which was primarily just to meet record company people. At the same time, when we were in New York, we were visiting agencies about, sort of, possibilities of what tours to do, you know. Elvis was one of the ones suggested and I mean the reason that we thought it would be a good idea to do the tour with him is just basically, I mean, he is a song writer and he’s gonna appeal to a listening audience, you know. And we wanted to play to an audience who were actually prepared to listen.
Interviewer 1: As opposed to an AC/DC crowd.
Paul: Yeah.
Mark: Sure, and wanting to bang their heads, you know. I mean I got nothing against it, but you know.
Interviewer 1: What can you tell me about, Paul, have you met Elvis personally or?
Paul: Yeah. Well we… Yeah, we’ve met him. But I mean it’s just one of those things where you keep your distance from people.
Mark: Yeah. We’ve met him but we’re never admitting it. You know.
Paul: Yeah.
Mark: It’s one of them things.
Interviewer 1: What makes him, you think, so un-accessible to even the people that tour with him, you’d think that wouldn’t be the case. You’d be more open to talk music with his peers, you know.
Mark: Are we talking about Elvis?
Interviewer 1: Well, I want to talk about you too, but I wanna first …
Mark: Sure. Sure. I hoped you’d say that.
Interviewer 1: I mean nothing special that makes him hard to work with? I mean.. as a tour? Like the fans, for example, think that when bands tour together they’re partying together and they’re hanging around together. That’s not the case all the time, is it?
Mark: No. Like, obviously not. I mean, from a time schedule point of view, I mean, as we’re sort of heading out of the gig he’s heading in to the gig, stuff like that. I mean -
Paul: I mean he’s got the same attitude as we have. We just get on with the job, you know. And I mean we think it’s a bit silly, just all mixing and having… I mean we’re here for a purpose after all, you know. I mean, we’re here to play the States. I mean, he’s here to … whatever..
Interviewer 1: This is your first tour of the states?
Mark: That’s right, yeah.
Interviewer 1: Tell me how it’s been going and describe if you can briefly, your activities over the last six (?)
Mark: Well I mean in terms of an actual tour it’s been quite an easy one because we’ve been having, sort of, one day off out of every four. So it’s been pretty easy going. This thing with Elvis, we actually picked up his tour half way through, so we just essentially doing the east coast. We’ve got about another four more gigs to do with him which ends on the 6th of September. Then we’re going up to New York to do club dates then out to the West Coast to do some of the clubs out there.
Interviewer 1: A lot of your work is very accessible to clubs around…
Mark: Sure. Well, you see that whole club scene is really important in England as much as it is over here. And I mean that’s true of like, the advent of videos. Well, I mean, in England the use of videos in clubs has really been coming on strong recently. I mean, even to the extent where in England now they’ve actually started putting video jukeboxes in the pubs, so that like, you know, for your equivalent of like say about half a dollar, rather than just having the record come up on the machine you can actually watch whatever video you want. I mean-
Paul: In a lot of ways in England video has ‘come more important. Which isn’t a good thing really but there’s a lot of bands that are on the charts in England at the moment who just do videos and just do the records and never play live at all.
Interviewer 1: Why do you think it’s not a good thing from your point of view.
Paul: I think a band should play live, you know. I think they owe it to the people.
Interviewer 1: How does Talk Talk approach the club, do you do video / half live or how do you mix that up? Or you, do you just, I mean…
Mark: We… we see, the way video’s work in Britain is only as like a promotional thing. I mean you’d never use them to actually substitute for a live performance. It’s like, this whole thing with sort of, like synthesizer work and everything like that in general has become an increasingly strong trend in Britain is there are like a couple of drawbacks to it which are… It’s like they’re content on being reliant on sort of using tape, using drum machines and things so that with sort of certain groups they’re not actually capable of delivering live what they can deliver on record. So from that point of view it is a bad thing, you know. It’s sort of almost going to that sort of set up of it being like studio bands rather than performing bands.
Paul: Yeah there’s a few bands in England that are actually lip-syncing live.
Mark: Yeah.
Paul: They’re not actually doing anything. They’re just making nice videos. I mean we’re really into videos and we do ‘em to the best of our ability.
Interviewer 1: How many have you done?
Mark: We’ve done three. Paul: We’ve done three now.
Mark: What we did, we did two videos with-for Talk Talk. We did one with Russell Mulcahy, which was to sort of use the thing of using extras, stuff like that I mean, we actually made that video first for Talk Talk, which is the one you were showing. What actually happened was in England, they actually, there were a lot of shows which refused to play it because they sort of like, you know the fact that we had people sort of without mouths and we had people in it with dark glasses who were like maybe blind people and things. It was sort of considered to be in possibly in bad taste. So what we actually had to do was with Talk Talk was to do an alternative video which would, you know, get shown on certain shows. I mean, we’ve actually now got a new single out in England and we’ve just done a video for that with another director again. What we’ve actually done with that is, with rather than it being a thing where the band is the central subject of the video we’ve got an 8-year-old kid who is sort of like the star of the video you know, in the same way like with our first Talk Talk one the monkey is the obvious star. You know what I mean?
Interviewer 1: You’re seen in the video, but not that much?
Mark: Yeah, I mean we’re in sort of fantasy sequences that this kid has, sorta like, you know, E.T. It’s like, you know, the British version of of E.T.
Interviewer 1: So you like the idea of the different ways videos can be done instead of the band up there playing their instruments?
Mark: Yeah, yeah. I mean it’s really important. I always like in videos if the band are actually in it to see them doing it rather than sort of faking it, you know, doing it as if it were for real. At the same time it’s like with anything if you want it to get repeatedly played it must have things in it aside from just specifically the band performing.
Interviewer 1: That’s what we spoke about earlier, the repeatability factor of that.
Mark: Yeah. Sure, sure.
Paul: Yeah.
Interviewer 1: The club dates that you’ve got scheduled in the States will they include your promotional video clips? In other words, will you maybe show those while you’re backstage and then come out on stage and do it live or do you think they won’t even being showing that?
Mark: I would think they wouldn’t even be showing that. No. I don’t -
Paul: Yeah. I mean we don’t like to cross the two. I mean a video should be a video and a performance should be a performance. And at the moment we don’t think we’re at the stage where we… If you integrate the two it’s gotta be done properly. And we don’t think we’re at that stage yet.
Interviewer 1: There are some bands that have managed to combine the live medium and the video …
Mark: Oh sure, sure.
Interviewer 1: You know (unintelligible) it’s quite successful. It’s like a band warm up instead of having an opening band or something. Show your videos prior to your coming on stage. It gets them all excited about actually seeing you.
Mark: Sure, you see the only problem with doing that with Talk Talk is that they’re gonna wanna know where the monkey is, you know?
Paul: Yeah.
Interviewer 1: You’ll have to bring him on the road with you.
Mark: Yeah.
Interviewer 2: It’s like Devo with Booji Boy. You know those characters.
Interviewer 1: Tell me how you - Mark, you’ve been around the music business for a while. I know your brother Ed Hollis was involved with Eddie and the Hot Rods for a bit?
Mark: That’s right. Sure.
Interviewer 1: And how did that - How do you see your involvement in that? Were you anxious to get started on your own career?
Mark: Well I - It’s like with anything, I mean, with any sort of big brother, you always sort of, look towards what they’re doing. It certainly, sort of made the whole music business that much more apparent to me than otherwise it wouldn’t have done. At the same time, you know, right from sort of, when I was like say 12, and that, he was making me up tapes of music that otherwise I would never have even got to hear. I mean in terms of the actual formation of this band he was important because it actually started around me going in to do some publishing. Like a sort of publishing contract, right. Just purely for songwriting. At the same point my brother Ed was working in another studio, and Lee and Paul who are the rhythm section, were actually working on that session and he suggested to them maybe they come up and sort of try working with me. And it was just something that was really happening so we just sort of took it from there.
Interviewer 1: So the idea of forming a band to perform your music was the best way to go rather than just publish it and let other artists do it.
Mark: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I always would rather have played it than just sort of write it for someone else to do because the actual performance of it is one of the most important things about, sort of, doing music. It was just like, sort of, good fortune, the way it all sort of fell in to place. I mean, right down to - it was like, we had one week in the studio to go in and do some demos for the publishing deal. Within that first week it was obvious things were happening really sort of strongly. So we did the publishing deal, we used the money from the publishing deal to sort of finance us in rehearsal for a six month period. After like five months of being in rehearsal we got hold of Jimmy Miller, you know, he sort of produced things like Jumping Jack Flash, Spencer Davis, Traffic, stuff like that and he came in and did some demos with us. We put those out to the record companies. We then did five, like, London nightclub dates. After the third one of those we got a session on, like, Radio One which is the major radio network in England and after that like the deals really sort of started coming in. It has been very fast. I mean I think we’ve been really lucky [and] fortunate in the timing.
Interview Part 2
Interviewer 1: The demos that you had done were done at Island Studios right?
Mark: Yeah, that’s right.
Interviewer 1: How did you get from Island to EMI America? How come Island didn’t pick you up, ‘cos- ?
Mark: I don’t know. I mean you know they were just like - it’s easier to tell you why we signed with EMI and that was just, you know, like really apparent with a lot of their artists that actually seen developing their careers properly. So that was actually why we signed with EMI in England. And then from there EMI America wanted to take us.
Interviewer 1: Being on the Duran Duran tour probably a great way to break the States too, or that association will help, [do] you think, in this country.
Mark: I don’t think it will help in this country. It certainly helped in England, because when we actually did that tour we were sort of, you know, we were playing to capacity audiences, that we knew, there was, like, a very good probability they were going to like the sort of thing we were doing. So it was certainly good from that point of view. I mean, to me, I think Costello’s a good person to do a tour with over here. I mean, that’s why we chose him.
Interviewer 1: Right, maybe it is, because there… you know, the guitar-less bands, this new trend seems to be a softer, more listenable, rhythmic, you know, thing to be involved in and if you’re exposed to that type of an audience it can only do good things for expanding …
Mark: Sure. Mm. Well you see the whole sort of idea when around this band was actually formed in terms of not using a guitar and everything was sort of not that much in line with a lot of the other sort of contemporary English bands that we’re sort of working with since. Cos like I say there’s like a heavy reliance on drum box and things. I mean the actual thing that I was listening to at that time was.. were people like sort of John Coltrane, you know and it was much more of that idea of, when we formed this band we’ll have… we’ll form it around a small jazz line-up, you know, which is like, keyboards, bass and drums and we sort of substitute the vocal for what the saxophone would be. So it was much more that sort of thing so that as far as like a rhythm section it wouldn’t have to be that sort of, you know, heavily weighed down, sort of, burden really. It could still have the movement, that things need when you’re live, you know and it could have that movement in terms of development. I mean, it’s like this thing with not using guitar or I see, as much as anything, the reason we used it was just to work in that style. It’s like, although guitars seem to be redundant at the moment in England I’m sure it is purely a phase. And I’m sure, like, when we actually start working on our next album there will be ways we will bring guitar in and I mean not to the extent we’re gonna be, sort of, Foreigner or anything.
Interviewer 1: Right. No reliance on amplification as you (move forward?)
Mark: Sure. Sure.
Paul: Yeah. Right.
Interviewer: What.. uh. you are using the producer of Talk Talk, is also the guy who did some work with Bowie and who else did he produce? Colin? Is it Colin Thurston.
Mark: Yeah. Sure. I mean who we’re actually gonna use for our next stuff is, uh, Chris Thomas, you know, more recently has worked with the Pretenders, and sort of earlier with Sex Pistols, you know, Anarchy in the UK, and I mean, the main reason for that is, sort of, this comes back to the same point again is, I just think there’s a very strong danger with a lot of this, sort of, synthesizer music that it can get too laid back in its feel, too soft in its feel. And the reason I think Chris Thomas is, like, a really good choice of producer to use in the future is because take in sort of, Anarchy in the UK as an example, he’s actually transferred that power onto vinyl and at the same time take in the Pretenders as an example, he, sort of, really goes for a strong vocal sound.
Interviewer: Mm hmm. That’s interesting. The, uh, how… what… I’m always curious to know how the band names themselves. Tell me how Talk Talk originated then.
Mark: Well, Talk Talk was actually written at the time the band formed. It was written almost within a couple of days of the band forming. So we just went through all this, sort of, you know, like looking for the name, we went through all of the ridiculous alternatives you can think of, you know, and there was Talk Talk just sort of staring at us, you know. I mean, one of the main reasons I liked it is, I’ve got a hang up with people abbreviating names you know. I just think if you’re the Rolling Stones that’s who you are, you’re not the Stones, you know, and I just like the idea of having two words that were identical words but you couldn’t actually shorten it down into one, you had to just say it like it is.
Interviewer 1: Yeah, you heard someone out back stage just a few minutes ago said on the radio they’re calling you Talk Talk Talk.
Mark: Oi.
Paul: Making it longer now, innit yeah.
Mark: What d’ya say. What d’ya say.
Interviewer: There you go. They’re just uh… did you hear what they’re doing in the parking lot here at this show tonight?
Mark: No.
Interviewer: There’s some radio station that’s giving $50 bills out to people that are listening to that station K102.
Paul: Think I’ll get out there now and do, huh (?)
Interviewer 1: So I hope that people that people come inside. … Just sitting in your car, they’re going to be driving through and if you’re sitting in your car just listening to their radio station…
Interviewer 2: I’m going back out!
Interviewer 1: They’ll be giving $50 bills out so you’ll have to turn it up to draw these people in from throwing out some $50 bills.
Mark: That’s crazy, innit
Interview 1: You never know where their competition’s going to come from. So you’ve got how much longer on this tour and where can we expect to see you around the country?
Mark: We got about another four dates on this tour, then it’s up to New York to do some, like, a few clubs, out to the west coast just to do a few clubs down there and then we go back to England and we do, like, an English tour, European tour and then start on the next album.
Interviewer: Mm hmm. It’ll be a full tilt album this time, not just the EP, it’ll be…
Paul: Well, there’s an album out now.
Mark: Yeah.
Paul: … in England. It’s called ‘The Party’s Over’
Mark: Yeah, and I mean you’re….
Paul: and the EP is like extracts from that album.
Mark: Yeah, I mean, you’re actually getting the full British album will be coming out over here in October. The first week of October. The EP was just like, it was just more than anything like, sort of, a promotional thing. It’s just like let’s put four cuts on a 12” then we got like heavy duty sound and everything and it’s sort of, it’s sort of like an introductory offer, if you like, I mean, what they’re actually doing in addition to that is they’re putting ‘Talk Talk’ as a straight single out this week and they’re B-siding it with our first British single which was called ‘Mirror Man’ then the full British album will be available here the first week of October.
Interviewer 1: How do you think the radio constraints in this country… have you been exposed to the way FM radio here…
Mark: Yeah. I’ve been extremely surprised by the way radio works over here. What it actually seems like what is happening is this … its like because, sort of, it seems like because over everything is commercially orientated in terms of radio stations, they’re playing it extremely safe about what they’re actually gonna play and what they’re not gonna play to ensure ratings. I mean, when I went out to Los Angeles a couple of months ago I went down and visited K-ROCK and I was really sort of pleased to actually see, you know, the way they’re sort of experimenting in terms of what they’re playing.
Interviewer 1: The enthusiasm of the station, K-ROCK is doing
Mark: Oh, it’s superb. And from what I can gather it’s picking up a lot of ratings which is great. I mean, I just hope it will, sort of, influence others to follow the trend.
Paul: ‘Cos on the road, like, a lot of the clubs we’ve been to there seems there’s real underground thing for English music. Like, especially in places like Columbus and that there’s…. They don’t even, they don’t like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Led Zeppelin and they just, they wanna hear the records but they can’t hear it, so you know.
Interviewer 1: It’s a very… It’s American radio’s in that position right now they don’t know which way to go. There’s a backlash of new products, new bands that wanna be heard and (oh lets change tape) and they’re just not getting …
Interview Part 3
Mark: That’s what someone was saying to me. They’re saying, like, maybe there’s five new spots open in any one week for new records. It’s sort of Foreigner, REO [Speedwagon] and Lynard Skynyrd. The three of those bands; there are only really two spots left open, you know.
Mark: I mean, you see, that is something that you don’t actually get in England because, because, sort of, the main radio station in England isn’t a commercial station. There are no restraints on that station like that. I mean the only restraint you got in any ways is just like obviously if you’re in the top forty you’ve got more chance of your record being played than if you’re not in it. But in terms of, like, diversity, it’s extremely diverse.
Interviewer1: The disc jockeys will play new music just for the sake of playing (new music?)
Mark: Yeah, I mean, you know it’s…
Paul: Yeah. They won’t stick with ‘Stairway to Heaven’ for the rest of their life, you know.
Mark: That’s right. And you can have Anarchy in the UK at number ten and Kenny Rogers at number eleven. It really don’t matter.
Paul: Yeah.
Interviewer1: There’s so much concern about the quote unquote aging hippy music, you know that they’ll continue to play the Lynard Skynyrds, the Led Zeppelins to death because what they think is the bulk of their audience the 18 - 34 year olds are now you now you know 28 to 45 or something and they’re still locked into that whole 70’s late 60’s rock and roll and there’s a whole new thing of music that’s around now and I think, the reason, that, you know, the purpose of radio is expose it and let the listeners ultimately decide. Which is different in England because , in this country, they just don’t do that, it’s run too much like a business. How do you find your self handling the business of music. I mean, that it’s been said music being an art form trapped in an industry. I mean you’re all obviously very interested and into your music as an art form and your know, expressing your music on stage. Does the business get in the way of that? Do you find that?
Paul: We just leave that to management really.
Mark: Yeah.
Paul. I mean, we’re aware of what’s going on, but that’s it.
Mark: Yeah. I mean, it’s like anything. Obviously there is a need to be commercial right, at the same time, sort of, if we are in any way commercial, that’s sort of as much through luck as it is through judgement. I mean you know it’s not… we definitely don’t at any time sort of try to compromise what we’re doing in order to make it commercial. You know, but at the same time we do see the importance of being commercial.
Interviewer1: Sure. it’s not premeditated. It just so happens that you write in that vein
Mark: Sure. Sure.
Interviewer: It’s interesting to note that video could possibly be the ingredient that breaks open radio. Uh, as you know videos are selling records. If people see Talk Talk video and like what they see they’re more apt to go and buy that record whether the radio station in their town is playing it or not.
Paul: Mm hmm.
Mark: That’s right. That’s like I say I think the importance of video is getting stronger and stronger all the time. I mean, you know, just from the think of being in England it is extremely strong over there now
Interviewer1: Right. For some bands. It’s interesting also like bands like your self
Mark: Yeah, yeah, obviously.
Interviewer1: I mean you guys visually attractive to the listeners. Your music would express that to them the two go together. Some bands aren’t going to make that transition
Mark: Sure. Sure.
Paul: Yeah. Right.
Interviewer1: You know. What feedback have you gotten from your video? Girls coming round more and uh?
Paul: Oh, of course, you know. Yeah.
Interviewer1: Right. It helps the groupie factor. But, uh. Alright, anything else, John, do you wanna add to this before…
Interviewer2: No. I think that uh…
Interviewer1: I think we got what we need.
Interviewer2: That wraps it up.
Interviewer1: Anything you want to leave the MTV audience saying?
Interviewer2: Any videos?
Interviewer1: Any warning.
Paul: I’ll leave the last word with you, Mark. That’s fine, yeah.
Interviewer1: Okay.
Paul: I think I’ve got a sound check, a sound check.
__________________________________________
Partially published on May 17, 2020. Completed October 28th, 2020. Please feel free to contact me and let me know where I effed up above in terms of spelling or words or punctuation (which I know is terrible).
Thanks to all the great fans I've met and interacted with online for all the support and patience with me, and for providing corrections where necessary.
Special thanks to the Penny, Queen, Curmudgeon and Precious for their moral support.
Of course, thank you Mark Hollis, Lee Harris, Paul Webb (Rustin Man) and Simon Brenner (Angel River) for making Talk Talk every bit of awesome it was. Also: Sir Phill Brown, Tim Friese-Green (Heligoland), Rupert Black, Ian Curnow, Mark Feltham, Jeep Hook, Phil Reis, and James Marsh for all the pretty pictures.
If there is any interview where there is audio that hasn't been transcribed that you would love to read, let me know. I'll happily look for text online for you and if none exists I will certainly do my best to provide a transcription to the best of my ability. If you have requested something from me and I haven't delivered yet, absolutely bug me again. My brain ain't what it used to be.
Sorry for the long delay. I was having trouble remembering what interview transcripts had been requested of me. And then I got distracted. I blame Paul Webb's album for that. Go listen to his album. Tell him that weird person Motorcycle Peanut sent ya. Link to the interview on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/talkietalkie/permalink/1628838957147800/ Disclaimer: I don’t the rights. This transcript isn’t 100% and is posted for ease of comprehension especially for non-English speakers. As usual, feel free to run this text through your local translator. There's a handy Google translate tool in my blog post to the right side. And Brit people! Please feel free to correct the text if you can in the comments. Between the boys' accents, muttering and everyone talking over each other, I often don't understand what they're saying. I’ll do my best to keep the blog post updated with edits and changes.
Note: the notation [?] indicates words I was unable to decipher. (?) indicates a guess at the word(s).
Adam Curry: In the [?] Countdown studio this evening Paul Webb- Paul Webb: Lovely jacket. Adam: Thank you! I like yours as well mate. Lee Harris. You’re not going to say anything to me? You’re not going to say to me will you? And Mark Hollis. You guys seem to despise the glamour group image. I always wonder what you think of groups such as Wham!, Duran Duran or the Drum Theatre. Mark maybe you could you tell me something about that? Mark Hollis: I really don’t think about things like that. All I think about are making records. You know, image is [a] very simple thing. Images should be something that’s just based upon your music. I don’t think beyond that. I don’t consider other bands. I just consider making records. That’s what we’re here for. Adam: Do you find yourselves often limited as a trio to the number of instruments you can play? Paul: Well we know we can take on more people anyway. Adam: How many? Paul: It depends. I mean. Eight or nine usually, yeah. Adam: And they play the violins or do you have a lot of synthesizers on stage? Especially with the new tour. Paul: Uh. Yeah. I mean we work things out after we’d done the album then we work out how we’re gonna do it live. I mean… Mark: With the thing with this live tour there is, purely from a point of view of economics, there is an extent to which we would have to use synthesizers live. I mean it’s just a fact. Adam: Because you didn’t use any synthesizers on the album. So I was wondering if you were going to be touring that you were gonna have to use them. Mark: This album really... With this new album we’re working with a base of 15 to 20 people. You see from a live point of view of touring you can’t take that number. We are limited to around sort of eight or nine people. So that’s what I mean consequently there will be areas where we will have to rely slightly on synthesizers. But that’s more in terms of the old material than the new, because with the new stuff, there will be some things on this album which will we will not be able to do live, because there’s no way at all we will resort to tapes or that sort of things. I mean, with the other stuff, it is, to an extent, sort of, you know organ and piano at least you know… We’ve forgot percussion really. Adam: Your favourite video. Which one is that? The group’s favourite video. (Off camera) Lee Harris(?): 'In Between Days', isn’t it? Paul: What? Mark: The Cure? [?] isn't it? Lee: No. You’re suppose to tell them… Mark: Oh… The Cure. 'In Between Days'. Adam: Come on [?]. Why is it your favourite video? Mark: Because we were told to say it was. Adam: Very good answer! Here’s Talk Talk’s favourite video, The Cure and 'In Between Days'. Adam: The Cure, 'In Between Days' video request by Talk Talk, even though they were told to say it was that. Yeah, missed it, but you’ve been broadcast. Paul: {?} Adam: What what that? Paul: Sorry. Adam: That’s all right. On the subject of videos in 'Life’s What You Make It', you had a lot of insects and bugs and no [?] in that one, I don’t believe. Could you tell me maybe why all the bugs and insects, Paul? Paul: Well, we find animals more fascinating than ourselves really. So, uh, that’s why we do it. Mark: I think animals are beautiful people. Adam: Oh. Oh. Okay. I understand. Because you also have a lot of animals on your new album 'The Colour of Spring'. Let’s plug that here for you. Let's see if I can get it on the camera. I see a lot of butterflies in there but some pretty eccentric ones. What’s the reason for the animals on the cover here. What… Is there any meaning for the different colours and different types of butterflies? Mark: You best ask the artist. Adam: And who was the artist for the album cover Mark: James Marsh. James Marsh. Adam: Just a crazy kinda guy! Okay! Hold on! Now it took you two years to complete this album. Does the record company give you that much freedom to take all that time and spend all that money? Paul: Yeah. Mark: The freedom that we’ve had making this album, that’s been given to us by the success that we had with the last album. So the freedom that’s been given to us is really due to the people who bought our last album. I mean, it would be true to say when we made the 'It’s My Life' album the record company gave us freedom, you know, to make that album the way we did because at that point we hadn’t sold many records so we were lucky. But from the point of view of this album, that freedom’s been given by the people that bought it and [?] the record company. Adam: Okay. You’re here to do your new single “Living In Another World'. I’ve listened to the lyrics. You came across kinda sad song or a breaking up song maybe. Mark, since you wrote them, maybe you can tell me what the lyrics are about exactly since I couldn’t find out for myself.
See how long you can keep this up without laughing. That’s not bad. Paul, maybe you can tell me. Paul: Now, what I would like to say is we’d like to thank everyone in Holland who bought the record because it’s one of our favourite countries. It was the first place where Talk Talk actually broke as a band. And I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. Adam: Great lyrics. Great lyrics guys. If you could go up to our official stage I think Mark is already up there by … Crazy guys. Talk Talk doing their single here in the Europe(?) Countdown. Here’s 'Living in Another World'. Links to two of the performances from the show (the interview is not included in these clips): Living in Another World - Countdown television performance - https://youtu.be/HUu3z_2nWBU
Hello everyone! As promised, here is the transcription of the famous/infamous Mark Hollis/Tim Pope interview from 1986. I do have a special bonus for any Francophones! The most wonderful Yael Bolender (link to her YouTube channel here) has actually translated this interview in to French. And was kind enough to allow me to post the video here. I
also encourage you to go to her YouTube channel though. She's a wonderful
person with lovely videos. You'll learn a lot and her passion for Mark
Hollis and Talk Talk... well, that just automatically makes her a great
person, eh? :) For anyone else, there is a handy Google Translate tool just to the right of the post which should allow you to translate this into the language of your choice.
Some things to note:
The notation -(?)- designates a part I was unable to understand. Words
surrounded by (?) indicates that I made a guess but am not confident of
the word that was spoken. As always, I have trouble with their accents
and the fact they were speaking on top of one another means I have
likely made mistakes. Please feel free to add your corrections in the
comments below! Finally, if you know the name of the interviewer I'd
love if you could provide it to me. UPDATE: Thanks!! Alla from instagram who gave me the interviewer's name and helped me correct some of the spots where I had zero clue what they were saying. You are truly awesome!
Without further ado, the transcription. Video of the interview itself and Yael's French translation follow the script.
Music Box Interview with Tim Pope and Mark Hollis
Simon Potter: Tim, let me put the first question to you: Talk Talk and It’s My Life-
Tim Pope: Yeah.
Simon: Um… to what extent did the song conjure up those sorts of images to you in the first place for the video?
Tim: Well it wasn’t much certainly the way the song conjured up. It was like a way of life really that whole film really. It was about … It was about evolution, I think, wasn’t it? And animals. That’s what it was about. Simon: Okay… Hey, Mark, were you happy with the end result or…?
Mark Hollis: Well it wasn’t a question of being happy or not with the end result, it was just a question the way in which you (?)lead your life(?).
Tim: It was a manifesto I think is what he’s saying.
Mark: Yeah I think it was a (?)practical reference(?) (?) party conference (?).
Tim: Yeah.
Mark: Yeah.
Simon: So did you have a lot of input though Mark? I mean throughout the video production.
Tim: No…
Mark: Well, in actual fact I did actually. In actual fact I did. Because all of those animals that you see in that video are in fact me inside little outfits. Simon: Really?
Tim and Mark: Yeah. Simon: He’s a master of disguise isn’t he?
Tim: Yeah. In fact that cost actually more to shoot than all those Duran Duran videos ‘cos we actually shot most of it around the world. We actually went around the world didn’t we when we shot it?
Mark: Yes. Yes. Well you did.
Tim: Yeah well I did. Well you did all the animals.
Mark: Yeah. Simon: See I told you it was going to be a lot of trouble, friends.
Tim: The thing is It also took about five years to make because there different quarantine regulations around the world…
Mark: (laughing) Yeah.
Tim: So he had to be left in quarantine for like six weeks. Simon: So it’s nice to see you out and about again Mark, that’s all I can say.
Mark: Yeah. It feels good. It feels good. Feels good. Simon: So how did the pair of you -
Mark: It isn’t much fun being on heat in quarantine. Simon: Wasn’t it?
Mark: No.
Tim: It didn’t smell good either. Simon: That’s what it is now, is it? I wondered what that was.
Tim: Yeah, it wasn’t. When he’s on heat, watch it. Simon: Okay. (laughter). Well you’re sitting next to him. Listen. How did the pair of you come to work together anyway in the first place. Let me try and get serious just for a minute.
Tim: I think when we first met each other it was like, um, a sort of animal relationship wasn’t it?
Mark: Oh God.
Tim: Naw. No, it was. It was. No. I mean… How did we meet? Ah. Ah.. One day we were like called up and that and then we were, like, thrown together in, like, one of these meetings. And, um. And then I came up with a terrible idea for that thing. And then somebody went out the room. And then we met I think. And then I said this is what it should be about, didn’t I?
Mark: Oh yeah, and then you said… You said ‘I’ve got just the suit for you’.
Tim: That’s right. And it fitted.
Mark: “I’ve got just the suit,” and it fitted. Simon: it was a Zebra.
Mark: Yeah.
Tim: You know I’m a tailor. Yeah. It was a zebra crossing. And it was a big crossing in our life.
Mark: Yes.
Tim: That was a good link . Simon: This one could run and run for us. I think it’s time for another video right now and I know Mark is much more keen to talk about this one. Well at least he said so two minutes ago, but he could have changed his mind in the meantime. This one’s called Such a Shame. Simon: That's from Talk Talk in the studio with me and film maker Tim Pope. Mark..
Mark: Well I wouldn’t exactly describe you as a film maker.
Tim: Well, I make some sort of films don’t I. You know what sort of films I make.
Mark: Yeah seedy films…Yes.
Tim: Same colour as this sofa, you know what I mean? Simon: They always give me this interview folks. The sort of people like Nick Hayward, I get. Kevin Rowland of Dexy’s Midnight Runners and now these two gentleman.
Tim: Like how they put us into that bracket with Nick Heyward.
Mark: Yeah. I’ve always thought of myself as a cross between Nick Heyward and uh, Kevin. Simon: Mark. Can I ask you about uh. Can I ask you about Such A Shame. The video. What inspired first of all the song… ‘cos it was a book, wasn’t it?
Mark: Yes. Simon: Tell me about the book then. Like what interested you about it.
Mark: Uh. It is just a book called The Dice Man. It’s just about changing personality at random through throwing dice. And all we did with the video you see is it was just sort of to think more in in terms of a, like a film. It’s just think in terms of making like a little three minute film of the book trying to sum up that book in three minutes. Well, four minutes twenty five but uh. Just thought I throw that in as a little touch.
Tim: Yeah, yeah.
Mark: Well all that was you see was to actually use the premise of the book, uh which… And just follow that for the film so we just, uh, threw a dice and just changed personality with the throw of that dice.
Tim: Yeah, Yeah. Simon: Was that a difficult thing to do though Tim? I mean, to actually convey what is essentially a game of chance visually.
Tim: Well a lot of people think that film looks like a load of crap. I don’t personally, but you know, I’m a bit biased. But there were like a lot of of ideas like within, like, loads of ideas. Which I can’t quite remember. But I remember some of them like, if you look, we played with the dice ideas a lot, like he plays six characters in it sort of thing. And when we were actually doing it the way we sort of did it was like I literally gave him a little piece of paper and I’d written a word on it, right? I’ve literally written a word and then start the camera and then you would do that character wouldn’t you? Maudlin?
Mark: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Tim: Remember Maudling?
Mark: Yeah. I thought he meant Reginald Maudling, but you know…
Tim: So he started playing Reginald Maudling which is a very political character he came from
Mark: Yeah. Sure, sure.
Tim: But that how, we like come up with the characters. And then those, the bits we did outside like, we went out it’s very arty this, ‘cos we went out, i would say so. I would say… artsy?
Mark: Yeah, we just went out and chose locations by, you know, if we wanted a number one location we’d look for something that had one prominent figure in it if we want -
Tim: Like the post box, right so the two…
Mark: Well, the post box was in fact the three actually. Yeah, but I…
Tim: Was it? (laughter). It's good someone was counting.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
Tim: And then that building was where Mark walks outside of that’s got five major bits in it…
Mark: Six.
Tim: So that was five…
Mark: Six actually. Six.
Tim: Oh cool, and then his jacket has six buttons on it -
Mark: Five actually. Five.
Tim: Did it?
Mark: Yeah. Simon: Aw, give him a chance Mark.
Tim: Yeah, give me a chance. He’s like this all the time.
Mark: I just like the facts that’s all. I just like.. you know.
Tim: Yeah, it like has got six buttons on it sort of thing, so like all the way through the film, and like the band being lined up ‘cos the record company said to me they wanted something like with the band in. So I thought we’ll put in a straight line, you know, that’s what we thought. Wasn’t it?
Mark: Yes.
Tim: Straight line? Put them in a straight line. And there’s six of them, then it’s five, four. So there’s loads of play on dices really. That was like the basic idea.
Mark: Everything’s done, even the editing, was down to dice throwing, I think the whole thing -(?)-
Tim: I shut me eyes in parts of it. I literally…
Mark: -The whole thing was absolutely to do it in…
Tim: -The structure -(?)-
Mark: -In the way the book was written you know absolutely…
Tim: So the actual method we used to make the film was like throwing the dice literally. Didn’t we, like the order we shot things in and everything.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah that kind of shoot… Simon: Really? You’re not winding me up again because it sounds .. believable.
Tim: No. This one isn’t a wind up.
Mark: -(?)- … true. Simon: There’s often a lot of hanging about on videos Mark. I mean, do you have to make them under sufferance really, or do you enjoy them?
Mark: No you see the thing is, when you’re working with someone who actually has sort of the personality and the beauty of Popey here you know you never sort of lost for… I mean he’s fascinating. I mean if you know things, you know all the bus time tables don’t you for the last eight years, all the rain fall?
Tim: But you see where he hangs about. I’m not going to tell you where he hangs about when we’re not filming 'cos I know. Simon: Really?
Tim: I’ve got it on film. One day we’ll release it. Simon: A bit tacky is it?
Tim: A little bit that way, yeah a little bit that way. Simon: Okay. I think cue another video then. This time we’re gonna take a look at Talk Talk’s Dum Dum Girl. I’ll have Mark and Tim hanging around for a bit more comments after this.
Mark: I like how you said Mark and Tim and not Tim and Mark that’s… -(?)- Simon: Yeah, well you know.
Tim: He’s tired of (?)understating(?) it isn’t he? Simon: Any particular difficulties with that one? Because once again, although it was fairly simple in it’s concept I mean all the shots look pretty complicated to me.
Tim: Well. It wasn’t really .. the whole idea was it should be quite simple really. ‘Cos we just shot it in a field. It was like the idea of just doing something, ‘cos like, you know we don’t really like all that, you know, that sort of, like, that stuff we have to work too hard and that. So it was like literally a matter of setting up in the middle of the field. I mean it was hard for him really ‘cos he had to sing live vocals. It’s actually a live vocal which i don’t think many people would have the bottles to do. So that was like the hardest thing. Although we didn’t scream out that. And it was quite good fun to cut ‘cos I like leaving all those shots of the camera goes like that to give it a feeling of spontaneity. I mean I could have cut it all together to be really beautiful and pretty stunning but i thought you know better to make it all look spontaneous a bit like that. I like a bit of that myself. Simon: (Laughs) What about you Mark? I mean, do you feel that he managed to capture that kind of spontaneity?
Mark: I think what we were really looking for there, you know, we just, with all these videos that we’ve made together or with any of them that they’ve been just sort of, as much as anything as a reaction against other things that are going down at the time. At the time we came up and made that video there were just so many videos getting made everywhere which were having so much money spent on them they were being, you know, so gross in terms of their production and everything and they were getting more and more distance from music and just getting closer and closer just to pure and cheap advertising. You know that all we wanted to do with that was try and make something that was very simple and very honest and that was it. It really was that simple. You know. Simon: Ok. The pair of you have been working on a movie you were telling me as well which sounds quite interesting. So what’s been going on there?
Mark: Well, it’s like a sort of cross between Terry and June and Dallas isn’t it. It’s got a little bit of porn in it.
Tim: Yeah, just a little bit.
Mark: Yeah, just a touch.
Tim: Like 90% of it. It’s called the “Green Kagool”. It’s quite interesting we were just on location up in the, um, the Lake District which was quite fabulous really, wasn’t it?
Mark: Yeah. Yeah. It was.
Tim: But we, like, swapped roles in it. Actually a little bit this time. ‘Cos we believe in that sort of commune sort of way of working and I -
Mark: Yeah. ‘cos you see my belief about art is that art is open to everyone. I mean, you know, the thing of technique doesn’t come into anything. The thing of chance, and randomness and spirit is definitely the most important thing. So that’s the way we worked, it was all to a spirit, you know,we all just got a lot of gin, got totally out of it, and then maded it.
Tim: I like, for example in this wife-swap, well, I wouldn’t quite call it a wife-swap, but this sort of system I was like camera operator which I don’t usually do. And he was, like, first assistant which is like the person who gives you all this sort of stuff, all that, and who shouts “Be quiet!” all that sort of stuff. So he was doing that. And then Tim Friese-Green, who’s his, um, producer on the record who he works with a lot, he was the locations but he didn’t find us many great locations really did he, I felt.
Mark: Oh yes, but he had some good ideas though.
Tim: Oh, he’s got fabulous ideas.
Mark: I mean his latest idea is the esophagus, that’s his latest idea for location, yeah. Simon: Really? Sounds fascinating.
Mark: Yeah. Simon: So when can we expect to see the film? Is it gonna go out on release ever do you think?
Tim: Well hope one day it will go out on general release. Um. It’s fairly mainstream I think. And I think that’s really what, you know, I think a lot of people would get a lot from it. Simon: Ok. Keep us posted on that one. I wanna move the conversation round now to your brand new single and video Mark, which is Life Is [sic] What You Make It. Uh… a little bit disappointed in one aspect you were saying earlier because the video’s been fiddled with?
Mark: Yeah.. uh.. Like I say, you see, the thing in making all these videos, all along is been that they should be different. You know, they should try and do things that out of the value of doing them not.. ah… at the minute, you see I .. I don’t like the way all these videos are sort of working in that they’re getting closer and closer to advertisements. And advertisements are getting closer and closer to pop videos. And you’re ending up with very little difference between something selling soap powder and someone actually making a video for their record and I think that’s quite shameful. I mean, you know, with this video for our new record we went in and we went into making it like a film. We went in and approached the soundtrack in the way you would approach it for a film. We shot it all so that it would work to the mood of the film and so that the band would be incidental to what we’d actually made they’d just be there like as kind of like a motivating force but they wouldn’t be what was trying to sell it at all. You know and what has happened is someone’s gone in and just re-cut all these horrible shots into it and just made it look like a regular promo. Simon: So somebody outside of your working relationship has actually tampered with the thing, I mean, some people at the record company maybe?
Tim: - Yeah, I thought, ‘cos it’s like sort of the first time this has ever happened to me. So it’s terrible. I hear about a lot of these things happening to other people. ‘Cos I just don’t…
Mark: Yeah. We’ve never had this.
Tim: No. We’ve never had this happen. We had a few problems with It’s My Life because everyone thought it was a bit weird, and that, but they sort of accepted it. But, um, so you know, um it’s is a bit sad because as Mark said the whole idea, right, when we started something was like the whole see like there is this other version which is basically like a performance cut against animals then it’s stuck over the soundtrack. Then it’s completely superfluous to the song you see which is a bit sad really because as Mark said our whole idea was that the thing should really work as a whole, right, but the band and all these little animals and that, and then, and we actually remixed the soundtrack you see, not in an ostentatious way, that’s near Ostend, not in that sort of a way, but um, just to really make, you know not so we’d get an award, for hey they’ve remixed the soundtrack but really to make, i mean that is the thing about all of these films, i think, they’re not made to get awards and that, they’re just like supposed to really like sort of show the song. Simon: And convey the music.
Tim: Yeah. That’s right. Well you see a lot of of them, it’s very easy if you cut them on the beat right and you do all this snappy snappy stuff, you see, then it’s great and I’ll be up there you know for this award and you know we’ll be up there and making emotional speeches about awards but they’re sort of about the opposite to that really. Simon: Ok. Tim, sorry. If can stop you there because we are right out of time. I wish you luck in trying to get the thing as you wanted it, in other words, getting the original back together. And it’s called Life’s What You Make It. We’re going to take a look at that right now and thanks for joining me in the studio, Mark Hollis and Tim Pope.
Link to the Interview:
#CreditWhereCreditIsDue: Link to Yael Bolender's French Translation: (re-posted with kind permission from Yael - Merci!)
